A CONVERSATION WITH NAIEMA DIN

FP: When you were growing up, what vision or expectations did you have of your future?

ND: I thought making change was very large-scale. A leader for me was CEO of a company or leader of some kind of big nonprofit, touring the world, giving speeches. As I got older, I realized this is not what it’s about. It’s not about doing it on the grand scale.

I had my first kid relatively young. I was 23, and that kind of rearranged everything. I’m gonna keep this person alive and help him thrive. I see myself now as this vessel of improving the world.

FP: Where do you think that drive to change the world came from?

ND: My parents were always lifting us up. “You can do this. You have the potential.”

My parents [also] are service-oriented. My dad was very much involved with nonprofit work and a leader in his own right. And my mom is very selfless and giving. At one point [as a kid], she’s cooking a bunch of biryani and then putting in to-go boxes. “I’m gonna go to the park and hand it out to people.”

I was totally rolling my eyes. “Mom, this is a lot of work...” But she just has that selflessness.

Now I see it as this beautiful thing. We look at society and there’s so much injustice and also a lot of cruelty.

FP: Was there a moment in your life when you noticed that cruelty?

ND: 9/11. I was 14 when it happened. It turned our world upside down. Then the “War on Terror” that ensued after that. The Iraq War. That [shaped] my worldview... I gotta make sure what I have an impact on is not causing more harm.

FP: Naiema, you have such a global worldview. Where does that come from?

ND: My parents emigrated from Pakistan. Growing up, my parents were not well off. My mom grew up at some point in [her] life close to poverty. Same with my dad — sometimes they only had one pair of shoes for the entire year. Knowing that’s my own lineage, my own history, and being a child of immigrants, the U.S. is not everything.

Also my faith in being Muslim. Read about Islamic history and you’ll see so many strong women in our history.

FP: What did womanhood look like to you growing up?

ND: It honestly wasn’t even something I thought about. I never felt like being a woman is what’s stopping me, or something that I have to really fight against.

FP: Tell me about when you met Mohammad.

ND: I was young. I was 18. He was 21.

This sounds so funny because it’s so rated G. We were working on an Eid gift drive. I’m embarrassed to say this stuff! So cheesy.

FP: I love cheesy!

ND: I had a huge crush on him. He’s so smart, and he’s so confident. I told my dad to talk to him and see if he’s interested.

Mohammad’s like, “Sure cool, yeah, I’ll get to know her.” We kept working on the project together and toward the end, he starts talking about life and plans. “Well, what about marriage?”

I literally said, “Let’s get down to business.”

I didn’t want to date. I don’t want a boyfriend. I know what I want. I want to get married. So let me figure out if you’re the right person for me.

We literally got married two months after that. It was very, very hard, but we did it, and now we’ve been married seventeen years.

FP: What was motherhood like?

ND: I had Ahmed when I was 23. We were in Oregon living on our own, no family around. I was working full-time at a tech company. Mohammad was in med school and it was really hard.

You’re in the thick of it, and you’re one foot in front of the other. Even now, that’s honestly how I approach this whole thing now [Gaza trip] with Mohammad.

FP: How do you think you and Mohammad have grown in all those years?

ND: I’ve come to know myself more and accept myself more. It’s not about, “I gotta do better, I gotta do more.” Now I look at what my life entails and what is given to me. How do I celebrate that?

How Mohammad grew... I think he also got to know himself a lot more. It’s funny cause when he was young I was like, “Oh, he’s so confident.” That’s what really got me into him.

But now I see this level of confidence and clarity that only comes with age and knowing yourself. I really see that in him and I love it. I applaud it because unfortunately not a lot of us end up knowing ourselves very well. We’re operating in a place of what society is telling us to do or what other people are telling us to do. We don’t take the time to think, is that really what I want?

[And right on cue, Mohammad calls Naiema from Gaza. The couple tries to talk every day or at least every other day, whenever possible.]

FP: He just knew we were talking about him! [laughs] How does it make you feel when you hear his voice?

ND: I feel a sense of relief every time I hear his voice. But I also hear the sadness and the devastation and the exhaustion. Honestly, it’s gonna be interesting when he comes back.

Everyone grieves differently so I don’t know what it’s going to look like. I hope that I can be there as a support in whatever capacity he needs.

FP: It’s so amazing to see you guys do that. To see you be the pillar for the family during this time.

ND: I mean, I don’t know if I’m the pillar. I don’t put too much weight in my role. Honestly, I see it as, we’re in this together, we figure this out one foot in front of the other... trying to make space for all emotions.

In a single conversation like you just heard, we’re literally talking about social media, right? Because I’m helping to manage his posts and sharing the stories he has to tell. But it’s talking about logistics. At the same time I’m listening to his voice, and he’s exhausted. He’s emotionally exhausted, and I think that does come with being married for 17 years.

FP: In the midst of all of this kind of chaos, how have you been able to center yourselves?

ND: My faith is huge, my belief in purpose and in the will of God.

My role right now is to continue to advocate. I was doing political campaigning for my brother, who’s running for California State Assembly. Before that, I was calling my reps every day trying to set up meetings with them. Protesting.

I feel like Mohammad’s done a grand thing where he’s gone [to Gaza], and he’s physically put his life and his body on the line. For me, if my role right now is to be emotionally sound, so that I can be there and make space for my kids and my husband, then I can do that.

FP: Not many people would want to put themselves in harm’s way. What would be your vision for the future?

ND: We continue doing the work. We continue having the energy, the focus, the intention and the stamina. To always have clarity of why we’re doing what we’re doing and to have clarity of what we need to do to actually improve the situation.

I want to also be able to hold on to the joy. I can still laugh. Yeah, my husband’s in a war zone. And I’m doing improv shows. Make space for it all.

We don’t tell ourselves, no, I’m not allowed to feel happy because this thing is going on. No, I have to feel happy because this is going on. This is how we don’t let them rob ourselves of ourselves.

That’s a form of resistance. I just hope with Mohammad, when he comes back, we can still hold on to that.

via Flash Forward Improv

January 21, 2024 Show
via Flash Forward Improv

FP: Naiema, tell me about improv!

ND: I started improv three years ago in the middle of COVID. I actually always had the acting bug since I was young. Me, my sisters, and my cousin, we would make little scenes or commercials.

As a kid, I never thought [acting] was an option because not many hijabi women in America are acting.

In COVID, we’re all, “Let’s have a new hobby.” For some of us, that was bread. And I was like, “I’m gonna try improv.” I took online classes and enjoyed it so much.

When theaters started to open up again, I started to do local theater and it snowballed from there. I have an improv team in San Francisco [Flash Forward]. We perform together twice a month. It’s a creative aspect of myself that I can throw myself into.

The beautiful thing about improv is that you’re exploring human emotion, the lows and then also enjoying the highs. I think improv has also helped me be present, focused.

FP: Yeah. Putting one foot in front of the other, because in improv you don’t know what somebody else is going to do, and you’re just gonna respond to that.

ND: And the thing about life is that life is funny. It’s weird, right?

FP: What have you learned about yourself during this time?

ND: I could do it. I did do it. I think all of us have that ability and sometimes we psych ourselves out. We tell ourselves this is going to be too hard. It would be too impossible. And then you put one foot in front of the other, and it’s done.

I have a support group now with other spouses whose husbands have gone on medical missions to Gaza. In the beginning, I knew I wanted some kind of support group. I need to talk to other people who are in the same situation as I am. Serendipitously a few days after Mohammad left, I got a call from an old friend from Oregon whose husband just came back from [Gaza] and wanted to tell me about it.

I’m talking to these women and there’s nothing completely grand about any of us. It’s just this strong belief in the purpose.

FP: There might be people out there who wonder how they can support you?

ND: Fight for the liberation of the Palestinian people. Support the people of Palestine, the people who are going through a genocide. We’re going through occupation. That’s what this is about.

I’m just a dorky girl from the Bay Area. I don’t think there’s honestly anything superhuman or different about me. It’s this strong conviction and knowing what my values are that drives me. And I think we’re all capable of that.

This conversation has been condensed and edited for clarity.
Photo Credit: Naiema Din

WONDERING is made possible by the trust of our participants. Here’s who we have heard from.